`Sensei`

"One who has gone before" I believe. Pretty much every (Japanese-originated) Martial Art I've done does indeed promote the use of the term "Sensei" more to uphold a tradition than anything else. My personal take, which I'm very open about, is that if students are coming to train under me then they're coming for the whole package which includes our traditions (and indeed modern traditions that we've all blindly appended to our art irrespective of basis). These include bowing, the wearing of the dogi and the term "Sensei."

This all said, this remains in the dojo. I don't put myself on a pedestal. Outside the dojo, the Sensei stuff finishes and I'm Pete. Or "oi, ugly" or whatever other personal terms you wish to apply. I do know people that can't leave the dojo behind.

Hi Tau/Pete

Yeah i agree with some traditions such as the wearing of the Karate gi and bowing when entering and leaving the Dojo , just intresting to get other peoples opinions and thoughts . I train weekly at a local Jujitsu and mma club , The instructor there is a ex Karate and Judo Dan grade, and he recons you are not worthy of a Sensei title untill 4th Dan ! . Ive never heard of this before .  

Jon.

Hi Jon,

I exclusively train adults (young university students) and I always introduce myself as Holger to new students and that is the way most of them are addressing me with, when they ask me questions. Some start eventually calling me Sensei some don't. Allthough I am flattered when being called Sensei, I also feel awkward, because I am only in my early 30s and don't feel like a Sensei. Maybe I am comfortable with it 20 years from now, who knows.

I think the japanese consider it rude when someone is refering to himself as Sensei.

Thats my take on this.

Regards Holger

Jon Jepson wrote:

The instructor there is a ex Karate and Judo Dan grade, and he recons you are not worthy of a Sensei title untill 4th Dan !

In Japan, "Sensei" is used outside of Martial Arts. A schoolteacher is Sensei, your driving instructor in Sensei, your football coach is Sensei. I believe lawyers and physicians are Sensei too.

I really don't want to get into the murky issue of titles in Martial Arts but in my experience 4th Dan is a common level to be awarded Renshi or similar.

ky0han wrote:

I think the japanese consider it rude when someone is refering to himself as Sensei.

There are folks on this board who have trained in Japan and so I look forward to their response. My understanding is that there's a difference between a descriptor an honourific. "Sensei" and indeed "Kancho" and "Shihan" describe the position that you hold. If you founded your own company then calling yourself the managing director isn't rude, it's what you do. Calling myself in work Charge Nurse isn't rude, it's my job title.

However, Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi and so on are honourifics. I understand that in Japan to use these titles toward yourself means you are, as I suggested previously, putting yourself on a pedestal.

My students call me by my first name.  When I'm teaching a course I find school age students tend to call me 'sir' just as they would any teacher.

When I'm teaching at someone else's club, or just training, other students tend to call me Sensei because they know I've been round the block a few times.  It isn't something I asked for.

I can remember teaching a class about 8 years ago for a large Ju Jitsu organisation.  I as talking privately with the (western) senior instructor (and founder of that style) and called him by his first name.  One of his horrified students was horrified and hissed "Kancho" at me.  Throughout the opening procedures for the day they had the theme music for 'The Last Samurai' booming through the sports centre speakers. :S

Hi guys,

it really doesnt matter what one is called etc, however, this depends on how disciplined ones club is or how much you want it to be. if its a traditional class then there must be a certain amount of discipline there otherwise students, or new potential students wont resect you or the other students and this is were problems can arise.

Im currently ranked 4th Dan, it is irrevelent but my students refer to me as sensei in the class, i say to them that outside of class you can call me what you like, but here i am your sensei. There are individuals out there who have trained for nearly 40 years and hold the rank of 3rd Dan for example, yet they would bury someone in knowledge and fighting capability to say someone who holds the rank of 7th or 8th Dan. It all depends on the individual,  as ive always said you have dan grades, then dan grades then the real dan grades.

I had to call my teachers sensei, in the forces would one get away with calling a sergent / corporal by his name? or a judge of law another name than your honour?? Just a thought there.

To many people get rapped up in the whole what grade are you? what dan grade are you? it really doesnt matter or mean anything to a point because it should be about whats in your heart and mind and weather you can do it that counts, for those who are always thinking about their next grade, dan promotion or whats round their waist might as well forget it and not train at all.

At one time there wasnt a grading or dan structure in okinawa, people seem to forget this. The formidable Master Itosu wasnt a black belt or world champion but he was a very able martial artist and could look after himself, and as far as we know he never lost a street fight.

Attitude, a little thing that can make a big difference.

Kind regards,

Jason

It's really only important if someone else WANTS to call you sensei, otherwise why bother. The important thing is that they understand the gist of the term, and understand the teacher/student relationship - whatever form it takes.

I float it as an option, but i'm definitely more comfortable simply being called by my name.

I find that it's probably about 60 - 40 some people use it, some don't.

Personally, I use the term as a blanket thing too, which maybe is not culturally appropriate, i.e. I call other blackbelts sensei, and I notice they do the same with me often.

At any rate, demanding a title is always a bad sign.

I never really ask my students to call me sensei but most of them do I think. I always correct anyone that calls me sensei outside of the dojo - 1st names every time.

I have been in classes where the "sensei" has stopped the session to dictate to the class that "you do not call me by my first name! I am sensei!".  and I also know for a fact that the same fella had his mail delivered to him as "sensei First Lastname Nidan". I know longer go to his dojo!

I think basically it comes down to the old saying that " respect is earned and not demanded"

Well Sensei was a title given to me by my Sensei when i started my dojo, it stuck. With the kids I insist they call me Sensei but its to show respect, the could quite easily call me "Sir" or "Mr X". With the Adults They tend to call me Sensei or X when I'm about. I tend to say " when we have visitors we have to show the correct Ettiquette. In the Style of Karate I practice, Senpai is anyone from Brown belt upto 3rd Dan. 3rd Dan and above is Sensei.

"Sensei" most literally means "one who came before".  A rephrasing that I heard of that that I really like is "one who shows the way".  It's usually used with someone who achieves a high degree of proficiency with a type of art.  This includes a number of other professions that allow the practitioner to have a signature way, or "style" if you will.

Status is an integral part of Japanese society, and proper respect is unspokenly demanded by societal mores, because to act otherwise would be a show of impropriety.  In fact, take a look at Shurei-mon in Naha, Okinawa.  Shu rei no kuni = "Land of Propriety".  Of course, demanding to be referred to, or referring to yourself, with any honoriffic at all is incredibly immodest. 

Outside of Japan, it's up to you as to whether you feel it is important enough to include within your syllabus.  It's not going to make your teaching any better, though some may feel an authenticity to it with the inclusion, along with (one could hope) a certain understanding and respect for hierarchy.  I've found that men follow courage, not titles. 

Tau wrote:

Jon Jepson wrote:

The instructor there is a ex Karate and Judo Dan grade, and he recons you are not worthy of a Sensei title untill 4th Dan !

In Japan, "Sensei" is used outside of Martial Arts. A schoolteacher is Sensei, your driving instructor in Sensei, your football coach is Sensei. I believe lawyers and physicians are Sensei too.

I really don't want to get into the murky issue of titles in Martial Arts but in my experience 4th Dan is a common level to be awarded Renshi or similar.

I prefer the Chinese "titles for this as "Sifu" is predominantly for Martial Arts teachers wheras "LaoShi" is for other professions like Teachers Lecturers etc.

My Local Chinese Restaurant always greets me as Sifu, I accept and acknowledge, I have "assisted" a couple of times with "non-payers" etc.