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Pieter-Jan Vdb
Pieter-Jan Vdb's picture
Rohai functional bunkai

Hello,

I am struggling with a few movements in Rohai. I have difficulties finding good bunkai for the crane stance and especially the spinning crescent kick. I found some information on this forum allready, but I couldn't find the answers I was looking for.

There are of course a lot of versions of rohai. This video is very close tot the version I practise:

I hope I can find some help. For the crane thing I experimented with a leg sweep, but the arms pull the wrong way to make the sweep effective, so i don't think that is what the crane stance is for. Another one that is quite practical for the crane stance is when the high hand is controlling one arm and the low hand is o the neck, so that your oponent is bent over, the raised leg is than a knee to the face. Problem with that explanation is that the next movement drops to zenkutsu dachi with kakete (grabbing motion). I can't make these two movements connect, but I have the feeling that they are connected in the kata.

As far as the spinning crescent kick: I don't have a clue...

Any ideas that might be of help with my analysis?

greetings,
Pieter-Jan
Gent, Belgium

Kevin73
Kevin73's picture

One application I have seen for the crane stance is moving back to evade a powerful attack, which is why you move right back into the attacker with grappling moves in the kata.  Thinking "foot sweep" could be on the right track, but it is avoiding one and countering it and not performing one yourself.

Uechi Ryu's Seisan kata has a similar move towards the end and the evasion is one application for it.

Pieter-Jan Vdb
Pieter-Jan Vdb's picture

Thanks for the comment Kevin,

Altough I'm not so sure about the foot sweep evasion. The creator of the kata (Matsumora) would have wanted to incorporate the most important techniques of his fighting system in the kata. I have my doubts that the keystone of this kata, the crane stance, is just about evading a footsweep. Of course, this is just an estimated guess. You might as well be right. Any ideas on the spinning crescent kick?

Jose Garcia
Jose Garcia's picture

I'm not sure, but right now i have an idea that perhaps the mikazuki geri and 360 turn could remind me of Empi jump which is made after a throw (in some bunkai a simple jump over the falling body over the oponent followed by a kamae waiting for next). Perhaps the geri is making a throw with the leg instead the arms. It also reminds me of Gankaku, which has another 360 turn and it's also crane system, but I don't know the bunkai.

DaveB
DaveB's picture
Pieter-Jan Vdb wrote:

Thanks for the comment Kevin,

Altough I'm not so sure about the foot sweep evasion. The creator of the kata (Matsumora) would have wanted to incorporate the most important techniques of his fighting system in the kata. I have my doubts that the keystone of this kata, the crane stance, is just about evading a footsweep. Of course, this is just an estimated guess. You might as well be right. Any ideas on the spinning crescent kick?

I have to agree with the evasion idea but also suggest you look again at the foot sweep movement as it fits perfectly to my eyes.

Looking at the form we see a repeated motif of a short movement in one direction followed by a thrust in the opposite direction.

The crane stance is a retreat but one that loads the rear leg in preparation for driving forward. Essentially this movement is teaching you "how" to retreat so you don't loose balance and so you areset to retake the initiative. Specific use of the crane stance may also imply kicking: we retreat to take the wind out of the attack but also kick to interrupt their progress before pouncing.

This kind of tactical and technical principle is of much greater value than the specific techniques which you likely already know. This sort of interpretation teaches how to fight successfully regardless of the situation or specific techniques in play.

If you also consider the angular nature of the retreat/entry and apply it to your fighting you become much harder to hit and land counter attacks more easily, depending how you apply the concept.

Looking at the techniques, the foot moves back from a wider position while the lower hand moves outwards in the opposite direction. If you sweep the leg in and towards yourself, pulling the upper arm or shoulder out away from where their foot is going will double the disruption.

The high block component works well if applied defensively just before the sweep, so that all attention is high. Block then pull, keeping the arm high as a distraction, then sweep and strike low.

Again looking for principles, this area of the kata asks us to look at drawing the opponent's attention, or attacking where their attention is not.

Considering the kick, I think the simple answer is that the spin allows you to practice follow through. We often forget that kata are intended as much as physical training as repositories of knowledge.

I don't think it's a throw as it doesn't seem to fit too well with the surrounding movements, but I'm open to persuasion.

Jose Garcia
Jose Garcia's picture

Some days ago I have seen some videos that suggest some possibility of the 360 turn being some kind of throw. I will post them if i see them again. But I think that variation was perhaps not presented as a main one.

Jose Garcia
Jose Garcia's picture

Here they are. I think here they are suggesting there could be a throw in that turn and other possibilites.

 

 

I believe I have seen some more but now I can't find them. Perhaps I didn't.

karate10
karate10's picture

Tsuru ashi Dachi (Crane stance) can can use to avoid low kick/sweep attack and the Mikazuki Geri can an attack not only for a clear liver shot, but also a knee kick to the side joints using Teisoku (Arch sole of your foot).  Thats being the basic appraoch for bunkai applications.

css1971
css1971's picture

Kick defence/throw.

Opponent's right leg is hooked in your left arm, rising.

Push him back with your right arm, sweep opponent's remaining foot with your front foot.

3 times with 3 alternative followups depending on how it went.

I'm pretty sure the exact same technique is in heian/pinan godan, including the cresent moon kick. Main difference you grab his front leg & lift rather than responding to a kick and instead of hooking opponent's supporting foot towards you, you just kick it to the side, either way it's a sweep.

I knew I'd seen it in one of Iain's books here's a link:

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/pinan-godan-manji-uke-bunkai-video

btw, Rohai is looking like a kick defense kata to me at the moment. It's not one I've learned so this is speculation based on the movements. 1st move of the kata being catch their leg, then throw them with the shuto gedan. Then the walk forward till they are at  the right angle and do the crane stance techniques.

Dod
Dod's picture

On the Rohai forward steps followed by crane stance with manji uke,  I knew I had seen a good explanation for this recently.  See this thread with a take by Iain (with pictures) and other comments.

http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/content/rika-usami-dominos

I also get the leg-lift take down described by css1971,   but I see the raised knee more as bumping him up to aid the take down rather than kicking the back leg away?