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Black Tiger
Black Tiger's picture
Pinan/Heian Kata

All

I don't practice the Pinan Heian series of Kata or even Kushanku/Kanku Dai as I don't feel that they are correct for me in my Karate. I don’t attend many possible seminars due to the fact they seem to be focused on the Pinan/Heian series. I always ask for Bassai (Dai) or Nieseishi/Nijushiho but to no avail.

They are probably the mostly practiced Kata in the world but for me and a few other Styles we just don't touch them.

Are we wrong to not consider them or do you find like I did for example that if you practice Kushanku/Kanku Dai there should be no need for them.

For many they are seen as training kata for school children as this is where they were original introduced to prevent the children form learning lethal techniques too early in their journey

Prior to them being created by Itosu Sensei many schools practiced the Naihanchi/Tekki series of Kata. Surely these are much better for the Karateka than the Pinan/Heian series. I can understand that they are the foundation to many Karateka’s arsenal of Kata but please, the Pinan are a lot younger than some of the older kata practiced, how can they be the roots of something older.

ky0han
ky0han's picture

Hi,

I think you are doing fine without the Pinan-/Heian Gata as do other styles like Goju-Ryu or Uechi Ryu.

Those five Kata are just the foundation of a modern approach to teach Karate for lineages tracing back to Itosu. As we all know back in the days masters knew only a hand full of Kata if not just one or two. So teaching was not that structured like it is today. In order to learn different things you had to learn from different people. Nowadays we have Ryuha or styles that are pretty much "complete".

When you are using the five Pinan-/Heian Gata you have a structured way of learning Karate. When you know all the movements you find it easier to learn other Kata like Kushanku/Kanku, Passai/Bassai and the likes.

Funakoshi and both of his teachers thought there are only two kinds of Karate. Shorin Ryu and Shorei Ryu. Shorin Ryu for light and fast people and Shorei Ryu for heavy and strong people. Funakoshi saw the three Naihanchi-/Tekki- Gata as foundation for the Shorei type of Karate and the five Pinan-/Heian Gata as foundation of the Shorin type of Karate. So I as a Shotokan adept, adhere to his advice to be well versed in both ways and so I always train those 8 Kata extensively.

I don't think that the Naihanchi-/Tekki Gata are better than the Pinan-/Heian Gata. They are just different (rooting, power generation and so on).

You could totally abandon Kata and still be okay. But again would loose a structured way of learning.

So don't worry you'll be fine smiley.

Regards Holger

Jason Lester
Jason Lester's picture

Hi Ken,

Holger's right, you are doing just fine and not doing anything wrong by not studying or teaching them. i love all kata, coming from a Shukokai back ground the Pinan Kata was the Kata i learned first, however i do not have a favourite kata but if i had to choose 3 to 5 kata it would be the Pinan / Heian Kata.

I teach and promote the Pinan / Heian Kata as much as i can and will continue to do so for they are often looked upon and even laughed at as being beginner kata, they are if you want them to be but depending on how you approach them one will discover they are extremley advanced kata and a devestating fighting system. this is the way i study and teach Master Itosu's creation.

Kind regards,

Jason

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Black Tiger,

You started an almost identical earlier this year so I’d refer you back to that thread for everyone’s thoughts around this:

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/pinan-heian-kata-whats-so-special-about-them

Black Tiger wrote:
but please, the Pinan are a lot younger than some of the older kata practiced, how can they be the roots of something older.

Not the roots, but (in my view) a succinct and intelligent summation of the core teachings of the older kata.

Black Tiger wrote:
I always ask for Bassai (Dai) or Nieseishi/Nijushiho but to no avail.

You should have been in Telford yesterday :-)

All the best,

Iain

Black Tiger
Black Tiger's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:
You started an almost identical earlier this year so I’d refer you back to that thread for everyone’s thoughts around this:

Yes I forgot about that one, thanks Iain

Iain Abernethy wrote:
You should have been in Telford yesterday :-)

And Yes I should have been in Telford, hopefully Brian Bentham's Seminar where you're attending (last time we met) it will be just what the Doctor ordered.

Thanks for all the responses

Jason Lester
Jason Lester's picture

Hi Ken,

im currently working on some Bassai Dai footage / Bunkai that will share with all soon : )

Kind regards,

Jason

Black Tiger
Black Tiger's picture

Jason Lester wrote:
im currently working on some Bassai Dai footage / Bunkai that will share with all soon : )

Awesome looking forward to it