Perfection of Character

Is a perfected good character a better character? Is a perfected bad character more evil?

I don't think that people can change character wise. What they can do though is work on the attitude towards different things.

From what I read the old masters were very carefull who they accepted as students, I think that had a reason. If you could change peoples characters you could teach karate or whatever martial art to everyone (which is what its like today) without remorse. Thing is, that learning karate to a certain level is hard work and not everyone is willing to put that much work into the training. Most "thugs" want a quick knowledge and ability gain and don't have the patience. So they often leave after a while. But if not ...

Regards Holger

"Sports do not build character. They reveal it"
Heywood Broun

I think the above holds true in Martial Arts as well.

I lost faith in the 'perfection of character' notion after seeing far too many high grades abusing their ability or position. 

Gary

Well, I agree with Gary in experience, however, I will try to retain my optimism.  Honesltly, I think its a good question worth asking:  what are the so called "character" aspects that MA training claims to develop?  And are they the one s that 'should' be developed?

First Caveat:  obvioualy, such a determination can only ever be personal in nature.  Nevertheless, its a worthy idscusssion point.

Here is my list of 'positive' martial chracter traits.   (You'll note that some items also show up on the negative list.)  On the 'positive' side of the ledger:

Self-disclipline

Assertiveness

Agresssion

Self-Confidence

Self-Awareness

Determination

Stoicism

Capability

Compasssion / Restraint

Attention to detail

Loyalty

Fitness

Competition

Self-improvement

On the more 'negative' side:

Aggession / Aggressiveness

Compliance

Rigidity

Myopia

Cockiness

Pride

Subservience

Secularity/ Zeal

Cultism

Perfectionsim

Egotism

Stockholme Syndrome reverse racism-- sorry, don't know what else to call this...  i.e the personal notion that you are somehow an Anglo 21st century Samurai.

Basically, I am personally convinced of the idea that 'any strength, taken to an extreme, becomes a weakness'.  So, in martial arts training, most any 'positive'-- in the extreme-- can become a 'negative'.

Therefore, without meaning to go all 'fortune cookie', the 'true' development of martial chracter becomes the (idealized?) personal  balance of the above qualities... yin and yang.  :-)

As to whether these qualities are somehow 'innate' or not-innate, I am also personally convinced of the relative 'neutrality' of the human soul-- i.e. that it can be both 'influenced' and [personally] 'developed' in both 'positive' and 'negative' directions.

Interesting question.  :-)

lcpljones_dontpanic wrote:

A recent forum thread got me thinking on the issue of martial arts and character perfection.

Martial artists often cite one of the reasons, benefits or by-products of training in the martial arts as being the perfection of character.

This probably won't make me popular, but here goes...

I think the problem here can be laid at the feet of Japanophiles (if that word hasn't already been coined I'm laying claim to it) with a poor grasp of historical and cultural accuracy who somehow link karate with Samurai, and further confuse Samurai with paragons of virtue (rather than highly trained and well equiped warriors who would unquestioningly slaughter innocents at the behest of their lord). The same folk who think they are following in the footsteps of these Samurai rarely (in my experience) also take up flower arranging, paper folding or poetry to further perfect their character. I like a cup of tea as much as the next (English) man, but I don't faff around for ages while I'm about it.

Karate was developed for self-protection. Dedication to any pursuit can have positive outcomes in other facets of a person's life and karate practice is no exception, but that's not how or why it came about. If a person is seeking to perfect their character they'd be better off seeking out their nearest church/temple/mosque (or similar) or, better still, sign up for volunteer work.

(Please take this in the tone it was intended - these are my opinions, but I don't mean to cause offence by them).

lcpljones_dontpanic wrote:

This begs the questions, what are the qualities that make the perfect character that we supposedly strive to attain? Are these certain defined or prescribed qualities that we all are supposed to attain and perfect or are we to simply try and enhance our already existing positive qualities while working to overcome and rid ourselves of our more negative characteristics.

Could be a very deep thread this! Great question!

I would say that the characteristics designated as desirable would change from culture to culture and throughout history. The ability to for someone to happily wander over to the next settlement, kill everyone there without hesitation or compassion, and return with their livestock and belongings would be deemed a “desirable” trait by my ancestors 1500 years ago in the harsh environment of the freezing north. Today, the same characteristics are far from desirable! There therefore can’t be a universal “perfect” as that would be dependent on culture and the role of the individual in that culture. Of course those within a given grouping will have a definition of “perfect” for that group, that maybe they feel should apply to everyone inside and outside that group, but others will have their own definition that will no doubt be different.

The phrase “perfection of character” is well used, but I think “perfection” infers there is a universal “perfect” and I’m note sure that is true … and even if it were true, would martial arts be the best route to that “perfect”?

The next aspect is can martial arts even change character?

Gary Chamberlain wrote:

"Sports do not build character. They reveal it"
Heywood Broun

I think the above holds true in Martial Arts as well.

I lost faith in the 'perfection of character' notion after seeing far too many high grades abusing their ability or position.

I agree. All I would add from a personal perspective is that once character has been revealed, it is possible for the individual to assess themselves and set out to change themselves. How / if that change takes place is down to the individual and their own goals for themselves and their own interpretation / the group's interpretation of what “good” character traits are. Simply training in the martial arts won’t make one into a “better person”; it could make a person worse if the negative character traits that are brought out are deemed desirable and supported by others in the group.

The martial arts can show someone has an out of control ego, and in doing so make that person reflect and realises that a degree of humility will help them in that given dojo and perhaps in life in general. However, in another dojo that revealing of the ego could be taken as a good thing, be rewarded / approved of by the rest for the group (“Yeah you’re awesome! And that's because you are part of our group and we are all awesome too!”) and make the individual conclude that being even more arrogant (“confident”) is desirable and hence it would be reinforced. I, like most here I’m sure, have observed both take place.

I strongly believe martial arts can be amazing tools for introspection and a great vehicle to “personal growth”. However, it’s far from automatic, it depends upon many other factors, and the martial arts just as easily be neutral or negative. In answer to the question “can martial arts change a person’s character for the better” I would say, “it depends”.

All the best,

Iain

For a somewhat cynical view on the dojo-kun, which from my understanding is where the phrase comes from, check out the podcast on 24FightingChickens.com on the subject. It also includes a retranslation from the original Japanese which makes more sense.

I try not to be too cynical 

I think it's yet another bell curve.  People just starting off might test the rules and etiquette.  People in the middle usually show the right attitude to training and their sparring partners.  But some of the big dogs?  I suppose it's only natural that once everyone starts bowing to them, they get a bit full of themself.  

Unfortunately in any grade or rank system this kind of thing exists, so unless you're lucky enough to find a top dog to train with that has kept his/her feet on the ground, it may be mystifying that all those years of training haven't turned that skilled instructor into a genuinely good person.

I always used to smile inwardly when we were expected to chant a dojo oath, knowing full well that the top instructor didn't abide by it.  It always reminded me of that quote, "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes..."

Gary

There's a lot of good stuff on Rob Redmond's 24FightingChickens blog, as mentioned above, on character development within martial arts.

Personally, I don't think that a karate instructor should be concerned with developing the character of his/her students. Nor should they advertise that practising karate can improve character. And this can be especially relevant when it comes to teaching kids and advertising kids classes. We're not babysitters and we're not surrogate parents with a duty to ensure the good moral upbrining of those kids.

We don't really teach character improving things beyond a cursory series of 'respect' gestures that simply make sense as we're in an environment where taking care of you training partner is imperative if we all want to be fit and healthy enough to continue training, go to work the next day and not get sued.

It'd be the same in any environment where the people are handling dangerous things - guns, hot liquid metal, fire, etc - take sensible precautions to not injure oneself or others. So, it's more about common sense than character building.

So, for me any character building that a person gains from practising karate comes from what THEY put into it not their senseis. And it's certainly not an automatic byproduct of simply turning up and training. It takes time and effort outside of the class, research, introspection and so on to improve your own character.

Having started this thread and seen the responses all of which have been great here’s my thoughts on the issue.

For those that know me practising martial arts for the purpose of perfecting my character would be futile as my character is perfect already (doubt the wife or anybody else would agree, ok maybe the cat).

Iain Abernethy wrote:

once character has been revealed, it is possible for the individual to assess themselves and set out to change themselves. How / if that change takes place is down to the individual and their own goals for themselves and their own interpretation / the group's interpretation of what “good” character traits are.

The above reminded me of when I first joined the military. After just ten weeks of basic training all my family and friends noticed a change in me (for the better I might add). This was down to the military training which takes a group of individuals with different characters, strengths and weaknesses and puts them under tremendous pressure, sometimes to breaking point, before then building them all back up to have the character and strengths that the military desire. However the system also by necessity creates individuals with a sense of elitism, aggressiveness and some other qualities that may or may not be desirable depending upon the circumstances as per Iain’s quote re his ancestors.

I very much agree with Lee on the issue of Japanophiles and believe that this is an unfortunate side effect of the Japonification (here’s another one for you Lee) of Karate after it was exported to the mainland by Funakoshi etc and the negative quality identified by miket as Stockholme Syndrome reverse racism. Good label Mike, much better than Japonification Lee. One wonders if these same people might endorse or excuse Japanese war time atrocities which were caused by the nationalistic government’s adoption of the bushido code, and yes I know we Brit’s have committed war crimes etc in the past.

Jon, I can sympathise with what you say regarding the teaching of kids and martial arts instructors not being babysitters or surrogate parents but I do think that the teaching of kids is a wholly different issue. If anyone is involved in teaching kids martial arts then I am sure you would agree that they are likely to be seen as a role model of sorts and hence trying to instill in the kids positive qualities, which the instructor must demonstrate themselves, is a necessary part of the process.

I do not believe that practicing a martial art 2, 3, or more times per week as an adult will make of someone some kind of zen buddhist monk type with a perfect character, there being no such thing in reality. As Iain explained, the perfect character is dependant on too many variables such as personal beleifs, culture, history and type of society. My point being that it takes more that 6-10 hours of physical exercise, a bit of cultural study, and dressing up in strange costumes to better oneself. Such a process has to be a continual one as Jon describes of “time, effort, research and introspection”.

I think it's worth noting that I know a guy who is confident that doing Zumba three times a week has made him a much better person. He's exercising, meeting new people and is running classes so he's met a personal benchmark. The first two are essential to virtually all sports and the last is relatively common to anyone who has set a standard for themselves. To be honest, phrasing it this way I doubt there's anything special about karate in this regard, at least I'm struggling to think of anything.

Thoughts?

Joshua.Harvie wrote:

I think it's worth noting that I know a guy who is confident that doing Zumba three times a week has made him a much better person. He's exercising, meeting new people and is running classes so he's met a personal benchmark. The first two are essential to virtually all sports and the last is relatively common to anyone who has set a standard for themselves. To be honest, phrasing it this way I doubt there's anything special about karate in this regard, at least I'm struggling to think of anything.

Thoughts?

Good point! I agree that there are lots of pursuits that benefit the individual and the martial arts cannot lay a unique claim in that regard. The one thing I would say is that martial arts are generally very stressful on body and mind. Pushing your body beyond its limits while having people throw punches at your head is an environment unique to marital arts, combat sports, etc. This high stress makes the conflict between our weaker attributes (cowardice, fear of discomfort, etc) and our stronger attributes (courage, determination, etc) all the more marked. I’d therefore say marital arts, because of their stressful nature, are more likely to bring out weaknesses in character that other, more sedate, practises. However, as I said in my post above, practising the martial arts does not automatically lead to any development in character (and the reverse can be true as well) but perhaps martial arts have a greater potential than less stressful alternatives?

All the best,

Iain

Yeah, I can agree with that. Kind of what you were getting at with your discipline and defiance podcast?