Becoming a Black Belt, what does it mean to you?

My dojo is only established 5 years or so now, so I have a couple of brown belts who in the next few years may look at shodan.

For me it's a biggie, much more signifciant than the mainstream view of say 4 years regular training - it denotes Assistant Instructor and opens up a whole new level of commitment and learning.

So, pushed in a corner I would say I would say in relation to students with little/no previous experience I would anticipate at least 7 years to black belt.

They would need to be consistantly training, of good character and have more than a passing interest in the art - and all that goes with it.

My view has and will continue to evolve!

10-12yrs from nothing to 1st Degree is generally what I'm hearing now. Black belt is a long way off. 

But that doesn't matter much, as the student will percieve value and progress from the fact that the skills they are learning hold up under pressure. They can evaluate their learning by what they can do- by performance. In this progression, the Black belts are really really good though, and they compare to 3rd and 4th degree Black belts from the karate styles that promote quickly. The shotokan club I was with promoted in 3 or 4 yrs to Black belt, and in the overall organisation there seemed to be vastly different levels of competency at the black belt level. They also did little pressure testing throughout the ranking system. Those that wanted it- did it on their own, and were generally promoted quicker than others. This however did not stop the others from obtaining their higher levels. Looking at it now, the constant pressure testing and a standard of performance for the higher levels, combined with the length of time it takes to achieve that level of performance gives a more level playing field and gives more meaning to the achievement of having a Black belt. 

Intersting to note though about the black belt, usually when I've seen people go from Brown to Black there is a transition period (you can always tell who the new BB are, lol). One of my friend's club used to have a probationary BB, where it had a red stripe on it for the first 12 months, and then afterwards you could remove it and join the ranks of the Black Belts. I've found that the difference is in time of training, and not colour of belt. 

Black Tiger wrote:

You never need to tell a Yudansha you need to do this or that etc whereas a Mudansha needs direction/instruction all the time.

It's never THAT simple.  Intelligence comes into the mix as well.  I have known brown belts as sharp as a tack that I'd have no hesitation leaving in charge of a class.  I've also known black belts I wouldn't trust to take a warm-up.

The longer I train the more I feel set distinctions defined by grades are unneccessary and at times downright stupid.

Gary

Gary

Totally agree with you there, Intellegence and Common Sense are just as important. I have had the same experiences too, I've know Brown belts who've been brown belts for over a decade and are more than capable of providing knowledge usable by both Coloured Belts and Black Belts a like. And I've know Black Belts that I've wondered how did they get their grade.

All,

I know some schools Grade their students to BB in 3 years or so and some will take 8-9 years from White Belt.

I am purely specifying the transition from 1st Kyu/Gup (Brown or Red Belt) to 1st Dan (Black Belt / Midnight Blue)

Should the timescale be less than 12 months around 12 months, upto 2 years or longer?

Thanks

Ken 

How long's a piece of string?

I trained with people who had got black belt in one year (in the Kyokushin Honbu) and they were extremely good.  I've trained with people over here who took 20 years because they were not.

Time is such an artificial measure as it doesn't reflect the intensity or volume of training, just the duration.

Personally, I don't put anyone in for BB for at least a year after 1st kyu, but we only train three times a week.

Gary

One of the moderators on Martial Arts Planet wrote a nice little article on his thoughts about becoming a Dan grade, which I posted on my website:

http://www.practicalkarate.co.uk/MD1.html

Gary Chamberlain wrote:

How long's a piece of string?

I trained with people who had got black belt in one year (in the Kyokushin Honbu) and they were extremely good.  I've trained with people over here who took 20 years because they were not.

Time is such an artificial measure as it doesn't reflect the intensity or volume of training, just the duration.

Personally, I don't put anyone in for BB for at least a year after 1st kyu, but we only train three times a week.

Gary

I agree with Gary.  Longevity does not really equate to knowledge or skill.  Quality focused time dedicated to the furtherance of both does that.

I agree time isn't THE most important element, but it is an important element IMO - experience over time is a very useful thing for many reasons IMO.

There's a lot to be said for this 10 year rule.

Matthew Syed explains it well in his book BOUNCE.  Suffice to say that in most activities it takes ten years of mindful, dedicated practise to become world class.

Now obviously not all black belts are 'World Class', but it might be a good rule of thumb to think in terms of taking a few years to learn the skills (black belt) then the rest to make them into your own winning formula.

Going back to the original question - Becoming a Black Belt, what does it mean to you?  Without trying to sound mystical (I hate that crap) I'd say it meant a lot more before I got it than it did afterwards.  It's just learning how to use the tools, nothing more.  It's up to you to then use them properly.

Gary

Hi all

I agree with Gary on this issue of brown and black belts. in the association my club are part of the minimum time between 1st kyu and shodan is 6 months, however i tnink the vast majority and therefore the norm take about 12-18 months before attempting shodan after gaining their 1st kyu.

The thing is if you have someone who has say attained 1st dan in Tae Kwon Do and they start attending a Shotokan club  are you going to insist on making them go through all of the grades and wait the required 12 / 18 / 24 + month period before they go for shodan. Common sense  and an individual students ability have to be the deciding factors on when a person should go for their shodan surely.

Also consider the following situation;

Joe has been a 1st dan in shotokan for around 3 yrs, he attends traing twice a week with one of those sessions spent coaching and not actually doing any training personally. he has no other martial arts experience and his knowledge of karate is limited strictly to the syllabus.

Dan has been doing martial arts of one sort or another for about 18yrs, he is currently a 1st kyu in the same shotokan club as Joe but trains a minimum of three and sometimes four times a week including some assistant coaching. Dan also travels around the country attending seminar and visiting different clubs and instructors, he also spends a considerable amount of time reading and researching martial arts etc. 

Who is the better karateka not necessarily the shodan. As Gary and others have said above some brown belts are technically better and more knowledgeable and able to communicate and impart their knowledge than some black belts.

So to answer the question Becoming a Black Belt, what does it mean to you? i would have to say that personally it does not mean a great deal as it is simply another step in ones progression and recognition that you have demonstrated on a particular day that you could perform the required techniques and in some cases knowledge.

One might therefore ask why bother going for shodan if one fits the above brown belt profile. To this i would submit the reasoning as being credibility in the eyes of prospective students, minimum requirements by associations etc for instructor recognition, personal pride in one's acheivement, a means by which other martial arts practitioners can immeddiately gauge one's level of experience and knowledge (by this i mean first impression only).

At the end of it all a black belt is only a peice of fabric worn around one's waist it does not make the wearer superhuman or provide the wearer with the knwoledge and ability to be a good instructor or champion athlete. that is down to person themselves.

Yes i am a 1st kyu and looking to do my shodan in Dec 2011 and maybe my perception may change in time and when i attain shodan but the above is my current view on the issue.

I'm at 1st kyu(taken me 5 years) and it will be approximately 12 months before consideration of shodan if I am to be considered, i'm just enjoying myself with training,  I have never been belt driven like some people I have met along the way so I am in no rush.