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Anf
Anf's picture
Tornado kick practicality

Hi all. I struggle with the Tornado kick / jumping 360 roundhouse kick. It looks awesome when done well. And I have no doubt it generates huge power. But it consumes a lot of energy, and is slow. It's quite easy to just get out the way when you see it being set up. So I'm wondering if anyone can think of a scenario where it is actually practical. The only thing I can think of is as a training tool. It calls for a fair amount of coordination and timing, and these attributes are of course core to martial arts. But aside from developing that coordination, is there ever a situation where the technique is practical in and of itself?

Chris R
Chris R's picture

People have been knocked out by tornado kicks in combat sports, however it is used very rarely and is not a necessary technique to learn. That's the only situation I can think of where it could be used, other than just for fun.

Quick2Kick
Quick2Kick's picture

When you know and practice what I know and practice a complicated fake can be useful. A tornado kick is a fake spinning kick.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Anf wrote:
I struggle with the Tornado kick / jumping 360 roundhouse kick.

It’s not one I personally struggle with … because I never practise it :-) If I were too, then I’m certain I would.  

Anf wrote:
It calls for a fair amount of coordination and timing, and these attributes are of course core to martial arts.

For those so included, the achievement of being able to do something so complex would be satisfying. There’s a satisfaction in learning any skill that should not be overlooked. As part of my daily stretching I include a few “yoga poses”. I do a mean Raven and a variety of headstands … and while I’m never going to do those in a fight, the process of learning the physical control to do them well was satisfying, and I’m sure the physical control and balance has some indirect benefits. Same with this kick.

Anf wrote:
But aside from developing that coordination, is there ever a situation where the technique is practical in and of itself?

I can’t think of any. I once saw a guy score a full point with one in WKF style competition (back in the days where it was three ippons to win), but I’ve seen far more points scored with far simpler techniques. As for self-protection, we can forget it entirely. Kicking itself is risky enough.

Fun and satisfaction are good reasons to do something. There’s no practical use for this kick though.

All the best,

Iain

Cataphract
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In kata,strikes to the hand with the instep are invariably preceded by a 180° turn, aren't they? (Heian godan, Bassai Dai, Unsu) I think one could interpret those as something similar to tornado. I've seen Kung Fu people doing these (turning jump, crescent kick) in two man forms against attacks from behind at very close range.

Marc
Marc's picture

Cataphract wrote:
In kata,strikes to the hand with the instep are invariably preceded by a 180° turn, aren't they? (Heian godan, Bassai Dai, Unsu)

Sometimes they are (e.g. Hangetsu), sometimes they are just turning the head by 180° without moving the feet (e.g. Bassai-Dai, Heian-Godan, Sochin), and sometimes they are not (e.g. Meikyo).

Cataphract wrote:
I think one could interpret those as something similar to tornado. I've seen Kung Fu people doing these (turning jump, crescent kick) in two man forms against attacks from behind at very close range.

While I'm sure those are fun to watch or do, I'd rather think of Mikazuki-Geri as a kick to and through the opponent's leg. Forum member Les shows it well in one of his videos:

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Marc wrote:
I'd rather think of Mikazuki-Geri as a kick to and through the opponent's leg.

Me too. It’s simple and it works. Les’s video show shows some great examples.

Here is my take on the kick as it appears at the end of Hangetsu / Seishan.

All the best,

Iain

Nate S.
Nate S.'s picture

I also think of it as a great "fighting" technique, in some contexts. The "knee up" part can be used to deflect or guard, and then the roundhouse/crescent kick part drops them. As Iain says, when trained contestants fight in a ring, the unexpected "advanced" techniques have a good chance of success. Also...it's darn fun to practice :D

Anf
Anf's picture

Nate S. wrote:
The "knee up" part can be used to deflect or guard, and then the roundhouse/crescent kick part drops them. :D

But the knee only comes up after you've turned your back on your opponent.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Anf,

Anf wrote:
But the knee only comes up after you've turned your back on your opponent.

I think you are talking about different kicks? The thread expanded to look crescent kicks without the turn, and I think that is the kick Nate is talking about?

All the best,

Iain

Anf
Anf's picture

While practicing in the limited space of my living room, I think I've cracked it.

I can pull off most kicks no problem in my living room, but if I try a tornado kick I have to be really careful not to smash into the front window. So the penny drops. It has no defensive application whatsoever. It is very much about closing distance quickly and delivering OFFENSIVE power.

It is perfectly possible that it's me at fault, but I can't do a tornado kick at close range. By the time I've done all the spin, step, skippy setup, I've covered maybe 2 strides minimum. My opponent is well outside of striking range for it to be effective.

Furthermore, as it is slow, it is easy to defend against. All you have to do is casually step out of the way. Therefore it is only effective against an opponent that is absolutely not expecting anything like it. Ie, someone that is not actively engaged in fighting you.

Ergo, while I'm sure there will be exceptions, it seems to me that the tornado kick is at best a dance moves, and at worst a bullying technique. It certainly doesn't seem to be defensive.