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diadicic
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What am I looking at?

Can someone try to explain this to me. I don't speak Portuguese. There is a lot of Karate coming out of Brazil. Very Interesting. Dom

Iain Abernethy
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diadicic wrote:
Can someone try to explain this to me. I don't speak Portuguese.

Me neither, but it looks like he is emphasising the importance of initiating the rotation of the body before the arm starts to extend?

Any speakers of Portuguese?

All the best,

Iain

Marc
Marc's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:
it looks like he is emphasising the importance of initiating the rotation of the body before the arm starts to extend?

That could be it. If that's it then here's a video by Rick Hotton that explains it well - and in English. :)

 

Also watch how a baseball pitcher uses hip lead to create torque and speed. Here's a great slow motion video.

 

Of course for a karate punch the baseball pitcher's movement is way too exaggerated. But it is clear to see and the principle remains the same.

Take care,

Marc

Iain Abernethy
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Marc wrote:
That could be it. If that's it then here's a video by Rick Hotton that explains it well - and in English. :)

That’s a good breakdown of a very important point. Pivoting on a central axis is a common error. Pivoting from the side of the hip results in more mass moving in the direction of the punch.

Marc wrote:
Also watch how a baseball pitcher uses hip lead to create torque and speed. Here's a great slow motion video. Of course for a karate punch the baseball pitcher's movement is way too exaggerated. But it is clear to see and the principle remains the same.

There are two things that humans do better than any other creature on this planet; think and throw. Chimpanzees, for example, are way stronger than us; but they can’t throw with anything like the accuracy and force that we can. Our low shoulders and the nature of our muscles make us excellent throwers. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that we say that people “THROW punches” as opposed to “thrust punches” or anything else. We intuitively know that a “throwing action” is optimal for our physiology.

As you say, a pitch is a very a diffrent movement to a punch, but the concept remains largely the same: Transfer the mass in the direction of the strike (stance shift), rotate the hip (using the side of the hip as the axis), let the muscles of the limb naturally stretch and then contract (generating maximum plyometric force) with the rotation, the striking tool then moves toward the target and impacts with maximum speed and mass.

In addition to ensuring maximum mass in motion at the point of impact, having the hip move before the limb results in the following:

1) The muscle become “stretched” during the eccentric phase of the movement. The body rotates, but the limb is not yet moving. This builds potential energy in the elastic components of the muscle (our muscles do this really well which is why we are the planet’s premier throwers).

2) We then have the “amortization phase” during which the muscle transitions from building up energy to releasing it. Crucially, if this phase lasts too long, the potential energy can be lost. The shorter the amortization phase, the more powerful strike. When striking, this happens in a fraction of a second and results in the limb moving way quicker that it would have done.

3) Finally, we have the “concentric phase” where the force from the contraction of the muscles is added to the release of the potential energy generated and released in the prior stages.

Using the muscles in this way to THROW the punch, results in maxim speed and power because we are working with our body’s physiology. Trying to simply contract our way to speed and power is far less effective because where are not making efficient use of the nature of our muscles and we lose all the energy and limb speed that the eccentric and amortization phases contribute to.

Some worry making use of the muscles in this way will slow the punch down (because you need to stretch before contracting, as opposed to just contacting) but the opposite is true. The hip rotation causes the eccentric phase, the resulting build and release of energy though the elastic nature of the muscles takes place in a tiny fraction of a second, and this additional energy results in the striking limb accelerating at a much faster speed. So, while the striking tool starts moving a faction of second later (which is imperceptible in fight), it reaches the target sooner and with greater force due to the additional energy (from the elastic nature of the muscle) and greater mass due to the hip moving more of the body mass in the direction of the strike. More mass at a greater velocity equals loads of power.

When done efficiently, the end of one technique will provide the eccentric phase for the next. These effective transitions will result in a greater rate of fire because we are then, as one of my teachers puts it, “fighting on the half beat”. You therefore get huge power, more speed, and a higher rate of fire.

All the best,

Iain

Marc
Marc's picture

Thanks, Iain, for that detailed breakdown of what happens during the hip-shoulder-hand chain.

Unfortunately, for some of my students who have a 3K background it is quite difficult to take the explanation and make the body move accordingly. Some do understand it but somehow they don't get it. With time though, most do get it eventually. And when they do, they are always happy with how the body feels and with how much power they can generate.

All the best,

Marc  

Paul_D
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Iain Abernethy wrote:

That’s a good breakdown of a very important point. Pivoting on a central axis is a common error. Pivoting from the side of the hip results in more mass moving in the direction of the punch.

But pivoting on the side of the hip means you have no mass pulling your opponent off balance and onto your strike (hikite) though?

Iain Abernethy
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Marc wrote:
Thanks, Iain, for that detailed breakdown of what happens during the hip-shoulder-hand chain.

My pleasure! I’m pleased you like it.

Paul_D wrote:
But pivoting on the side of the hip means you have no mass pulling your opponent off balance and onto your strike (hikite) though?

The role of the hiki-te is mainly about location and limb-clearance. These can result in disruptions to posture, but the hiki-te is not about pulling the enemy off balance for impact purposes i.e. having them “run” into the punch.

We need the most impact possible and that means rotating from the side of the hip.  Pulling the enemy onto the strike (if possible, assuming angles and size differentials allow) will not get the same level of impact as putting 100% of the bodyweight behind the strike. The enemy can resist the pull (even if just by simple inertia) so you don’t get the same “bang for your buck” at impact because the enemy’s movement won’t make up for the lost body mass on impact.

All the best,

Iain

Paul_D
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Thanks Iain :-)

Iain Abernethy
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Paul_D wrote:
Thanks Iain :-)

My pleasure! That’s for the question! I’d missed that element in my explanation and I appreciate you bringing it up and correcting that oversight.

All the best,

Iain

Nuoli
Nuoli's picture

Use of the elbow in the tsuki, transmitted to me by Sensei Rousimar Neves (Juiz de Fora-MG)

I used Google translate to translate the Youtube video description. So what about the elbow?

Iain Abernethy
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Hi Nuoli,

Nuoli wrote:
“Use of the elbow in the tsuki” … I used Google translate to translate the Youtube video description. So what about the elbow?

We need someone who can understand exactly what is being said in the video to know the point being communicated.  

None of us speak that language and a tangential discussion has developed around the kinetic chain in punching, but we don’t know if that is what is being talked about in the video.

It could simply be that the extension of the elbow should happen after the body has begun to rotate? That’s certainty one of the things can see … and that’s what sparked the related discussion. It could be any number of things though i.e. a preference for keeping the elbow low and the forearm vertical, keeping the guard up to the very last second, etc. We won’t know until someone is able to understand what is being said.

All the best,

Iain

Nuoli
Nuoli's picture

I don't speak Portugese but I have a ear for latin that if I hear it enough, I get an idea. He's demonstrating a technique passed on to him from Neves Sensei with using the elbow in delivering the punch. He doesn't elborate on anything else regarding initiating a blow. Probably just a tidbit of technique show that you can deliver a effective punch from anywhere. There's a video uploaded after that "Hara" 

 

Here he demonstrates a drill of hip, torque and shoulder with no explanation. Kind of reminds me of my time in Okinawa when I first started karate. "Do this." Practise. Watch, practice, understand later.  I'm currently practicing Wing Chun which have some similarities, delivering a punch with the fist forward instead of drawn back from the ribs. One drives the elbow with the shoulder, the forearm and fist are just along for the ride (over simplified, there's more).

So in all, something to add to the arsenal of techniques and something to practice.

Bruno Chagas
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Hello guys. I have been following the forum for some time. Great content. I'm from Brazil. I did a transcript of what Arakaki sensei says in the video: "This is a technique that sensei Rosimar has given me, which is in relation to striking throwing the elbow first for the tsuki strike. Throw the elbow and then strike."

Iain Abernethy
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Hi Bruno,

Bruno Chagas wrote:
I have been following the forum for some time. Great content.

Thanks for the support, the kind words, and for joining us!

Bruno Chagas wrote:
I did a transcript of what Arakaki sensei says in the video: "This is a technique that the sensei Rosimar has given me, which is in relation to striking throwing the elbow first for the tsuki strike. Throw the elbow and then strike."

Thank you! I take there is no additional information as to why he feels that is important?

All the best,

Iain

Bruno Chagas
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Iain Abernethy wrote:
Thank you! I take there is no additional information as to why he feels that is important?

Not really. That's all he says in the video. No further explanation.

Iain Abernethy
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Bruno Chagas wrote:
Not really. That's all he says in the video. No further explanation.

Thanks for letting us know! Much appreciated.

Without the details of why that is felt to be an optimum way top punch, it’s difficult to discuss the merits either way.

Thanks once again for the clarification.

All the best,

Iain

Nuoli
Nuoli's picture

Just in: I have a better translation from a Portuguese speaker:

"This is a technique that sensei Rosimar has given me, which is in relation to striking throwing the elbow first for the tsuki strike. Throw the elbow and then strike."

Keeping what Abernethy Sensei a elaborated on as a given of course! OSS!

Marc
Marc's picture

Bruno Chagas wrote:

Hello guys. I have been following the forum for some time. Great content. I'm from Brazil. I did a transcript of what Arakaki sensei says in the video: "This is a technique that sensei Rosimar has given me, which is in relation to striking throwing the elbow first for the tsuki strike. Throw the elbow and then strike."

Bruno, thanks for the transcript.

dhogsette
dhogsette's picture

I'm wondering if it has to do with the importance of keeping the elbows in tight, close to the body. That is an emphasized principle in Matsubayashi--the straight punches should be straight out, with no extraneous movement, especially letting the elbow open up and extend to the outside, which tends to activate and rely on weaker muscles in the shoulder and can result in shoulder injury as well as weaker punches. Thinking about throwing the elbow first may be a strategy for keeping the elbows in tight. But, if over-emphasized, the straight punch can become a modified hammer fist... Anyway, just some thoughts that occured to me that seem to make sense, since he is focusing on the movement of the elbow during the punch...

Best,

David