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brianp
brianp's picture
Purpose of Cresent kicks in kata.

There are cresent kicks in some Shorin-ryu Kushanku and in wado-ryu Seisan.  What is the purpose of these?  I have found, even performing the cresent kicks that, they are akward, slow, lack power even at lower heights, and to quote Geoff Thompson, from his book "Real Kicking"  "Hightly decorative, highly impractical (sorry); I have to say that I'm of a similar mindset"   I often see silly applications that result in using cresent kicks to knock weapons out of the attackers hand, but I've pressure tested this and usually it ends up with you getting stabbed several times, in the leg, but I could be missing something.  I think on some fundamental level it could represent a sweep and it has been stylistically altered and over time has became a cresent kick.  They seem like they are outliers in within the kata.  Most kicks are delivered low, are simple, front kick, side kick,  and importantly, when the oppenent is already in a vunerable position, at least this is how I interpret kicking within the context of self-defence and the kata.  Even nidan geri is more effective than the cresent kick, I've used it in the street, like a right idiot I must add, and it put the person down.  He deserved it yadda yadda. Now, just because I personally find this kick useless as a chocolate fire-guard doesn't mean that it is.  I could be very wrong, or just really terrible at this kick.  I could be missing some fundamental aspect of it, I don't think that I am, but I acknowledge that I could be wrong.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

A crescent kick motion lines up a stomp kick to the knee quite nicely when you throw it low, and it also works as a knee prop (hiza guruma, in judo) or sweep. The fanciest application I've been taught that I would still consider somewhat practical is a karamidi waza (arresting/restraining technique) where you lock your enemy's arm and throw the leg over it before sitting down on their shoulder, pinning them to the ground and isolating an arm so you can begin to tie them up.

brianp
brianp's picture

Hiza Guruma would fit the application in shorin-ryu kushanku very, very nicely.  I like this application, it's very simple and would work well.

Skip to about 2.00 mark to see the part with the cresent kick.

Zach Zinn
Zach Zinn's picture

The armbar type technique is also what I've learned for the one that shows up in Goju Suparinpei...you could possibly argue for the same thing where the kick appears in Rohai. personally I don't think it's very practical, but I agree the crescent kick itself is an odd one...however, the same motion for both cerscent an reverse crescent functions fine as leg checks.

DaveB
DaveB's picture
There are no slow or weak kicks, only slow or weak kickers. If you train it it will come. But since I'm too lazy to do that I look at it as a front snap kick to the leading lower rib/armpit which, like the arm bar application, lands on the other side. Of the opponents lead leg placing you hip to hip as your foot drops and your elbow strike connects.
Tau
Tau's picture

I use the crescent kick and reverse crescent kicks lots although I concede in techniques that I would consider non-pragmatic.

I've used the reverse crescent in competition and very nearly got a knockout from a jaw impact (althought it was semi- contact match (bad Tau!) They also set up techniques such as the omoplata and gogoplata.

For pragmatic use, when performed low-level they can be very effective. I've seen them used especially well in Kempo Karate. See also Kris Wilder's "Retard Kick" if there are resources anywhere.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

This is not one I’ve posted on YouTube, so I hope this verbal description makes some sense.

brianp wrote:
There are crescent kicks in some Shorin-ryu Kushanku and in wado-ryu Seisan.  What is the purpose of these?

The “receiving hand” pushes against the enemy’s shoulder and turns them inward. This will turn the legs a little and expose the opposite inner thigh. The crescent kick then hits the inner thigh and kicks the leg around and up i.e. it follows the exact same arc as in the kata. It won’t reach the hand (!) but that is the “intent” behind the movement. This will cause the enemy to spin and fall. (It drops them pretty fast actually and it tends to get “oohs” and “aahs” at seminars :-)

In Wado’s Seishan, the hand that was on the shoulder closes and pulls back and the leg returns. This will guide the enemy in front of you so you can hit then in the head or neck with the low punch. Should the enemy shoot forward along the ground to tackle the legs, the kata tells us to pull the lead leg back and push down on the enemies shoulders to thwart the tackle attempt (the last move of the kata that is frequently mislabelled as “groin kick defence”).

If that’s not clear, the whole thing is exampled on my DVD on Seishan / Hangetsu (Bunkai-Jutsu 4): http://shop.iainabernethy.com/acatalog/DVDs_UK.html

The crescent kick in Passai / Bassai-Dai works in a similar way, except the follow up has us guide an elbow in to the falling enemy’s face (it’s a pretty brutal technique!).

As with all things, it’s not so much the effectiveness of the motion itself, it is how that motion is applied. Crescent kick can be applied effectively, ineffectively and ridiculously (i.e. the kick the weapon out that hand BS).

I hope that helps?

All the best,

Iain

JWT
JWT's picture

I find it a useful kick against the head of a person you are holding in a  bent over position in an arm or shoulder control.  Sometimes you can't knee, your hands are tied up with securing a control, and using this as a circular slap or front kick to the face works beautifully.

brianp
brianp's picture

When I read your discription I did say "ohhh" that makes a lot of sense now.  I was running through the kata and trying to make sense of it and couldn't.  Thanks!  

Th0mas
Th0mas's picture

It seems to me that a lot of the more unrealistic interpretations of techniques you find in kata are as a direct result of a lack of understanding of the range in which they should be applied and not recognising follow through (as in a golf swing)..

The crescent kick is a very good example of this. Due to the nature of its wide sweeping arc coupled with the "hand kicking" movement you see in the kata, you get these silly knife disarming interpretations at long range. or targeting the head over your opponents leading-hand guard etc

Where as in fact it should be applied at close range. The target is the back of the knee or the back of the leg to unbalance or drop your opponent, the hand is your grip and the rest of the kick is just the "follow-through". when applied to your opponents leading leg it twists and drops your opponent and enables you to get a position behind them, whereupon you can apply a finishing strike (as in Hangetsu or Heian Godan) or a strangle (as in Bassai)...

Matt Perlingiero
Matt Perlingiero's picture

Th0mas wrote:
Where as in fact it should be applied at close range. The target is the back of the knee or the back of the leg to unbalance or drop your opponent, the hand is your grip and the rest of the kick is just the "follow-through". when applied to your opponents leading leg it twists and drops your opponent and enables you to get a position behind them, whereupon you can apply a finishing strike (as in Hangetsu or Heian Godan) or a strangle (as in Bassai)...

This is how I use them.  I think that when used like this (first technique):

 It's really effective.