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diadicic
diadicic's picture
Nagewaza Gichin Funakoshi To-te Jitsu

Something I read in To-te Jitsu:

PART 7: Negewaza: Throwing Techniques

"Karate is not similar to jujitsu, thus, throwing techniques have not been internalized into Karate too extensively, however it would be an asset to incorporate some jujitsu into Karate."

I should come to understand this?

Is he saying that there aren't really throws in the kata or that their aren't that many throws in kata?

Dom

Dash3
Dash3's picture

He also said,

"In karate, hitting, thrusting, and kicking are not the only methods, throwing techniques and pressure against joints are included ... All these techniques should be studied referring to basic kata."

If anything, I think he was saying throws aren't the focus of karate (and they shouldn't if your karate is for self-defense), but you have to have those clubs in your bag. Funakoshi's books lay out several throws and describe where they are in the kata. And certainly, karate throwing isn't going to be the technical throwing found in judo (because it doesn't have to be the nuanced one-upsmanship needed to better anothe skilled competitor on the mat).  Throws are good, but you're not going to learn them in most karate dojo these days, so maybe Funakoshi is telling you to cross-train (like he did) with someone who can teach you the basics...

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Throws and locks were definitely part of karate … indeed Funakoshi shows six karate throws in the same book (To-te Jitsu). In Karate-Do Kyohan (written over a decade later) – in the throwing section (nine this time) – he writes:

“In karate, hitting, thrusting, and kicking are not the only methods, throwing techniques and pressure against joints are included … all these techniques should be studied referring to basic kata”

So throws are part of karate and kata. Later on in the same section:

“One must always keep in mind that since the essence of karate is found in seeking to end the confrontation with every single thrust or kick, and one should never be grasped by or grapple with an opponent, one must be careful not to be defeated through concern with throwing an opponent or applying a joint punishment hold.”

So the throws are there, but the striking remains primary. Which is good advice considering karate’s civilian, self-protection based nature. To me, the line you are quoting reflects the same notion i.e. throws are a useful part of karate, but they are not primary methods as they would be in Judo or certain schools of Jujutsu. It’s just clumsily written / translated.

Funakoshi also makes two explicit links to throws in kata. His “Komanage” throw he links to the gedan-barai of Naihanchi in To-te Jitsu (rentan goshin karate jutsu) and his “Udewa” he links to Bassai in Karate Kyohan.

We even had pictures of him teaching throws (and striking on of the ground):

Funakoshi is not alone in talking about karate throws:

“The karate that has been introduced to Tokyo is actually just a part of the whole. The fact that those who have learnt karate there feel it only consists of kicks & punches, and that throws & locks are only to be found in judo or jujutsu, can only be put down to a lack of understanding … Those who are thinking of the future of karate should have an open mind and strive to study the complete art” – Kenwa Mabuni, 1938

This article goes into more detail: http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/karate-grappling-did-it-really-exist

I’ll also embed some videos below.There are other throws that Funakoshi shows, and there are many more karate throws (see my YouTube channel), but the selection below are all ones that Funakoshi shows in his books.

I hope that helps.

All the best,

Iain

 

 

 

 

 

 

diadicic
diadicic's picture

Hi Iain,

I defenatly agree with this logic.  I believe that is the way I already felt before I brought up the discussion.  I thought by starting it, maybe I could learn a little more.  Now that I think about it, after years of learning on this forum, I am able to read older works by past master and understand them better.

Thanks again..

Dom

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

diadicic wrote:
I believe that is the way I already felt before I brought up the discussion.  I thought by starting it, maybe I could learn a little more.

I’m glad you did start it. The thread has had over 1400 reads in a day; so that shows how interesting people find discussions of this oft-neglected part of karate. The times they are a changing :-)

All the best,

Iain

JWT
JWT's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:

diadicic wrote:
I believe that is the way I already felt before I brought up the discussion.  I thought by starting it, maybe I could learn a little more.

I’m glad you did start it. The thread has had over 1400 reads in a day; so that shows how interesting people find discussions of this oft-neglected part of karate. The times they are a changing :-)

All for the better! :)