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OhioMike
OhioMike's picture
The final turn in Chinte

Hello all,

I have been doing quite a lot of work on Chinte recently and feel relatively confindent in most of my breakdown, it is a fairly straightforward and brutal little form when doing a pragmatic analysis. However there is one combo that has me stumped, around 1:10 to 1:20 in the clip, I see the attack to the nose and eyes, and then a fish-hook with the nukite follow thru, then I lose the flow. 

 

I think I see getting behind an opponent and driving the palm strikes into the base of the neck on a partially downed opponent, but I do not understand the spinnning knuckle strikes. There does not seem to be any good reason that I can find for the hands staying together, and the common explaination as a turn to escape a bear hugs seem very contribed to me. If I had to teach it I would consider it a neck crank type throw, close to empeor holds a giant egg, which is one of the applications I see to the elbow strike earlier in the form. But if that were the case I would expect the hands to move apart in order to give maximum tourqe on the neck, which is what they do right after the elbow strike earlier in the form. 

Does anyone else do this form and have some idea on what this might be for?

Thanks,

Mike

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Mike,

OhioMike wrote:
Does anyone else do this form and have some idea on what this might be for?

I’d run with double palm heel to the jaw … if the enemy gets their hands up to protect themselves, strip those hands with your own and deliver a head butt (1:17).

The dojo is only so big so we turn because “sensei could not afford a bigger dojo” i.e. the turn does not have combative meaning but is there as a linking motion for the solo kata within a defined space (very common at the extreme ends of the kata). It’s then a new lesson …

The “pincer punch” is then hitting / gouging the rib cage if caught in a high clinch … if the enemy moves their torso back from the pain, we can push on their face to crank the neck in a further attempt to loosen the grip. If we are not able to break free, then grab the face and punch. If the enemy releases with one arm, we can then lock the other and take the enemy down by shock loading the elbow (the hops).

All the best,

Iain

OhioMike
OhioMike's picture

That makes me feel a lot better, I kept thinking I was missing something on the turn, but I agree that if you assume the turn is the start of a new lesson and to keep the forms starting and ending points aligned, and also because of space constraints then it makes a lot more sense. The high clinch response also is very fitting with the rest of the form which in my mind focuses a lot on grapple responses. 

Thanks,

Mike

Roman Ostien
Roman Ostien's picture

Hello, I am a bit late but would like to add my two cents nontheless.

The turn could indeed be simply a “sensei could not afford a bigger dojo”-turn, but the way you turn and the end-position always reminded me of something and it finally dawned on me: a rear bear hug, specifically the version in which your arms are below the opponent's.

This would be a "closer" way to get someone's back, in contrast to the one the kata shows previously, where you have enough space to safely grab the opponent's shoulders.

This may be a stretch: Starting from this rear bear hug, the end salutation with the bunny hops could be applying a full nelson and dragging the opponent down in a very....chiropractic way. It would certainly fit into the modus operandi of the kata.

Also:

Iain Abernethy wrote:
I’d run with double palm heel to the jaw …

I personally prefer an attack to both ears, with just enough time offset between the strikes to get more force into each. This would be in line with the kata's "do horrible stuff to the opponent's sensory organs" theme.

God I love this kata.

All the best,

Roman

Roman Ostien
Roman Ostien's picture

Just for clarification:

I see the spinning knucke strikes at 1:17 as a way to hook the opponent's elbow from the inside and pulling it out of the way to get his back, as indicated by the turn.