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Cataphract
Cataphract's picture
Essential Throws

Sports like shoot boxing and sanda seem to have a small set of go to throws. (That is my impression anyway.)

tai otoshi - basic drop
ippon seoi nage - flying mare
ura nage - suplex

Can karate be said to have a standard arsenal of "bread and butter" throws? And if not - why?

Dash3
Dash3's picture

Very much depends on whose karate you're asking about.

Funakoshi's books contain several throws but, in my 20 years (crap, has it really been that long?) of training in Shotokan schools, the throws are rarely taught and even less frequently practiced. I just got done teaching a two-part seminar series on Funakoshi's throws which hopefully will lead to more regular practice.

The throws are in the books, they are in the kata (as Iain and a host of others on this forum demonstrate on a regular basis), but (at least in my experience) haven't been in the dojos nearly enough.

As to a set of go to throws, that's probably going to vary by karateka but I get the most mileage out of: osoto-gari, ogoshi, seoinage,  and what Funakoshi calls katawaguruma, all of which you can find in the Heian katas (if you know how to see them).

Regards.

Dale

Les Bubka
Les Bubka's picture

For Karate I practice variations of Hip throws and Tai otoshi plus shoulder throws. Personally after years of wrestling I like to throw and I see throws in every bunkai :)

Kind regards

Les

Marc
Marc's picture

Since you mentioned other sports I think it's worth considering throws in karate kumite as a sport, too.

As far as I've seen, most throws in sports kumite are leg sweeps of some kind (think ashi-barai). There are also variations of leg reaps (think soto-gari or uchi-gari) and hip throws (think o-goshi).

Here are some examples.

 

 

The WKF kumite rules (p. 10) state the following about throws:

For reasons of safety, throws where the opponent is grabbed below the waist, thrown without being held onto, or thrown dangerously, or where the pivot point is above belt level, are prohibited and will incur a warning or penalty. Exceptions are conventional karate leg sweeping techniques, which do not require the opponent to be held while executing the sweep such as de ashi-barai, ko uchi gari, kani waza etc. After a throw has been executed the Referee will allow the contestant time to immediatly attempt a scoring technique.

Take care,

Marc

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

I think it's important to note that, even in sport martial arts, there is a larger curriculum of throws spread across all of the participants, and each participant has a very small number of THOSE that are bread-and-butter techniques for them. In Judo, we called these tokui-waza (specialty techniques). Karate is similar--it has more throwing techniques than most people will regularly use, but each karateka may have a different selection of tokui-nage-waza. You have the "standard 9" from Funakoshi, but also a selection from Itoman Morinobu, and several in the Bubishi, just to name a few written sources, nevermind the methods still found in arts like Motobu UdunDi, KishimotoDi, Okinawa Kenpo, and various other styles, and all the foot sweeps that are popular in sport karate (although those were largely influenced by sweeps from Kendo and Judo, as well). That's not even considering other methods of dropping opponents to the floor, like leg-pressure takedowns, spine manipulations, and stomping of the legs. Another consideration is the fact that combat sports are done between people with the same or similar training, which actually severely limits the techniques you will be able to pull off because your opponents are looking for them. That is not so much the case with karate and self defesne.

With all that in mind, it's very hard for me to list a set of throws and say that they are the "bread-and-butter throws of karate," because some techniques are simply not suited for some people, and some are better suited to others. Harai-goshi/ashi-guruma/o-guruma (depending on what the person I'm throwing does) is a bread-and-butter technique, for me, but much harder for people with shorter legs, for example. I also have Judo experience, which can change my approach, which others don't have. The best I could do, short of listing every throw found in karate, is list my preferred throws, but even then I would have to be a bit generic because you have to tweak techniques in the moment when dealing with resistance

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

In line with what Noah said, I think it’s difficult to make generalisations across the board for individual karateka. As an example, my short legs prevent me being successful with certain throws i.e. inner thigh throw, but it’s the main throw of one of my training partners.

Just as there are many individual karateka, there are also many “karates”. Marc’s post above quotes the WKF rules as regards to throwing. That rule shapes what will be the go to throws in that context. Same in Kudo style competition because “speed submissions” are now allowed (not just strikes as in WKF). There are also throws I use all the time in dojo duelling (one type of karate), that I would never dream of using when it comes to karate for self-protection.

I think the variables of individual and objective make it impossible to point to a definitive list of across the board karate throws. We have lots. Which ones will be the “go to” ones will depend upon individual and context.

All the best,

Iain

Dash3
Dash3's picture

The dojo where I taught the seminar on Funakoshi's throws has posted some of the video clips. Obviously doesn't capture everything we covered but will give you the basics. I won't link all the videos, just the channel and you can look as you like.

Regards.

Dale

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCF7eoP-sUkhiMBVNNCahHdg

Cataphract
Cataphract's picture

Thank you. Very clear demonstrations.

We've been doing a lot of de ashi barai and o soto otoshi lately, plain and simple.

Marc
Marc's picture

Those are excellent videos, Dale.

Clear explanations and well demonstrated. I also liked the comments on safety and compliance.

Thanks for sharing.

Marc  

Dash3
Dash3's picture

Thank you for the kind words!

Dale

Marc
Marc's picture

Cataphract wrote:
Can karate be said to have a standard arsenal of "bread and butter" throws? And if not - why?

As has been mentioned above, karate has many throws, and you can find them in kata.

Which throws are your go-to throws depends on your build, your skills and your preferences. But mainly, I would say, does it depend on the situation.

In judo or wrestling (sports) the athletes try to set up their favorite throw. It may take a while of grabbing, releasing, seizing, until one of the two feels confident that now their throw will work.

In karate (as self-defence) we do not fight to apply a throw. We fight to escape. If during the chaotic exchange of grappling and hitting the situation for a throw presents itself then we might take it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, no big deal.

If we have practiced a certain throw to a good level of skill, then it might be easier for us to detect the opportunity to apply it and we can be more confident that it will actually work.

What I take from the karate katas in terms of throws and takedowns is that the katas show us the principles behind them. We don't see Uki Goshi, O Goshi, and Koshi Guruma as different techniques in karate katas, instead we see a representative example of a hip throw that covers all of the hip throws in one.

Recently I taught a class on different principle for throws and takedowns. These were the princples I covered:

a) Winding throws (inside), where you place your hip in the way and keep turning while you pull your opponent around you.

b) Winding takedowns (outside), where you step to their outside and keep turning while you pull your opponent around you (think of an arm bar).

c) Shearing takedowns (forward), where you bring your opponents head forward while at the same sending their hip/legs backwards.

d) Shearing takedowns (backwards), where you bring your opponents head backwards while at the same time sending their hip/legs forward.

e) Tumbling throws, where you bring your opponents elbow above and over their head while at the same time sending the head down and underneath, essentially using their shoulder as a fulcrum. (As a variation you could use use their knee instead of their elbow, using their belly as the fulcrum.)

Of course there are details on how to do the takedowns effectively, and we disscussed them in class, but I think these five principles cover a wide range of throws and takedowns.

By the way, I used examples that occur in both Heian Sandan and Bassai Dai because we worked on these two katas at the time.

Take care everybody,

Marc