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Finlay
Finlay's picture
updates

i read that in many 'modern' systems techniques are continually updated and refined according to experience or finding of the group. certainly this can be seen in MMA where a 'new' technique will work for a time until people figure out a way round it. In sel;f protection circle techniques seemt o be be refined according to reports from ral life situations.

this casued me to think of a cuple of questions

- are we defending ourselves against the same threats and violence as before?

certainly, the people and the mind set have alot of similatires but, surely with a change in avilible drugs, a change in cities, availible weapons and the proliferation of MA art information either by classes, sporting events or the internet (youtube) the threat is very different

as a follow one to this should we update kata?

most instuctors that i hyave met have made adjustment to thier arts to deal with the above issues. how far should these adjust meant go though, Should we take out or alter the movements in the kata than are not applicable anymore? after all did the masters of old not keep updating their training and kata through out their lives?

Zach Zinn
Zach Zinn's picture

I hate to say it, but looking at "martial arts" or available training  is not really the direction for civilian defense kata IMO. Anyway, if you approach things like that, how do you prioritize, can you predict that your mugger watched some youtube videos on Muay Thai, or hit a heavy bag a bit..not really. Once you are looking at "how can I deal with Muay Tha, BJJi" etc. you are looking at training, and tailoring your own responses for trained opponents, rather than habitual violence..which has it's variances, but (again IMO) probably hasn't changed a whole lot.

This is really down to seeking principles above collecting tactics, if we can manage to do that then the variance in contextual civilian violence from a few hundred years really shouldn't matter much. The real problem with kata application is failure to have something that relates to actual violence, more than it is a lack of "updating" anything, martial arts is of course constantly changing in some ways, but I think good martial principles themselves are pretty consistent.

That said, on a personal level, training IS basically nothing but a constant process of "updating" ourselves and the way we do things, if something works better you do it..that's not conscious updating though is it? It just seems like common sense to me.

JWT
JWT's picture

Finlay wrote:

i read that in many 'modern' systems techniques are continually updated and refined according to experience or finding of the group. certainly this can be seen in MMA where a 'new' technique will work for a time until people figure out a way round it. In sel;f protection circle techniques seemt o be be refined according to reports from ral life situations.

this casued me to think of a cuple of questions

- are we defending ourselves against the same threats and violence as before?

certainly, the people and the mind set have alot of similatires but, surely with a change in avilible drugs, a change in cities, availible weapons and the proliferation of MA art information either by classes, sporting events or the internet (youtube) the threat is very different

as a follow one to this should we update kata?

most instuctors that i hyave met have made adjustment to thier arts to deal with the above issues. how far should these adjust meant go though, Should we take out or alter the movements in the kata than are not applicable anymore? after all did the masters of old not keep updating their training and kata through out their lives?

I don't think the threat is very different at all.

HAOV vary a little from culture to culture, but not significantly over time and distance because the human animal has not changed much over the last few thousand years.  Civilisation and diet have made us first smaller and then larger again, but essentially we are still the same animals governed by the same impulses and predominantly using the same armed and unarmed methods in assaults.

As for the proliferation of martial arts in popular culture, it's not an important factor in the violence we are likely to face.  It's not important for several reasons:

1. Most people don't study martial arts in any depth or for any amount of time and therefore cannot access their training under pressure.

2. A significant proportion of the martial arts taught today is high maintenance fine motor skill and cannot be used under pressure.

3. A significant proportion of martial arts taught today is designed for ranges and attacks found in particular types of sporting environments and does not cross apply to real situations easily due to the different environment.

4. In violence caused by aggression/anger and possibly drugs/alcohol even highly trained people tend to bypass their training and attack with HAOV.

While certain types of violent crime might increase or decrease (eg assaults/robberies with firearms) those have been present for at least the last century and they are the type of attack which which in the majority of cases (due to range) unarmed martial arts cannot deal.  

The masters of old did keep updating kata throughout their lives, but they didn't do so because the threat had changed.  They did so either because they changed the orientation of their study to more sporting karate v karate attacks, or because their insights into violence over time led them to tweak certain things to their preferred methods.  

I've rarely found a movement in a kata I couldn't apply effectively in a modern HAOV related situation.  Now that move might not be one I choose to practice personally, because I might have designed an approach I've found works better (strangely enough often related to another kata move) or fits more holistically with my other drills.  I don't take that move out of the kata, I create a new kata with a related collection of drills and practice that.  That's why I have my own kata, and that in my opinin is why we find the same sequences but not others turning up in many different kata.

Hope that helps.

john titchen

ky0han
ky0han's picture

Hi everyone,

JWT wrote:
Civilisation and diet have made us first smaller and then larger again, but essentially we are still the same animals governed by the same impulses and predominantly using the same armed and unarmed methods in assaults.

I am with John here. I don't think the human being has changed at all. People still have one head, a torso as well as 4 limbs (when healthy). We also have what sometimes is refered to as the reptilian brain, lizard brain or whatever. So when it comes to events of danger there will always be hormone effects along with the reallocation of the blood to prepare for either flight or fight.

When you learn to accept that the human body is what it is then you don't be surprised and overwhelmed on such an occasion. That is the hardest part I guess.

JWT wrote:

1. Most people don't study martial arts in any depth or for any amount of time and therefore cannot access their training under pressure.

2. A significant proportion of the martial arts taught today is high maintenance fine motor skill and cannot be used under pressure.

3. A significant proportion of martial arts taught today is designed for ranges and attacks found in particular types of sporting environments and does not cross apply to real situations easily due to the different environment.

4. In violence caused by aggression/anger and possibly drugs/alcohol even highly trained people tend to bypass their training and attack with HAOV.

And that tops it off. Great.

Regards Holger