Schoolyard Bullying

I decided to add some of my own thoughts here

http://al-peasland.blogspot.com/2011/03/casey-heynes-bullied-fights-back.html

and a follow-up here

http://al-peasland.blogspot.com/2011/03/casey-heynes-bullied-fights-back-part2.html

My comments were more of a generalisation, using this footage to show how predators (bullies) and their prey behave, The power of body language and the animalistic behaviour of vying for status in groups, be it in school or elsewhere

Have had some very interesting feedback and even more information from one of Casey's mother's friends.

I'll most likely be doing a Part 3 to this, once I have collated this information.

Enjoy x

I think the other thing these clips do not show is if the bullying kid is being encouraged by the taller older lad who comes in after the slam dunk. He appears to go after the bullied  kid when he makes his way off at the very end of the clip.

Amazing topic ...

Considering I see a lot of local Karate classes (other than ours) have mostly kids then the most likely confrontation scenario is something like the above.

Which leads to me to ask myself if this is the most common type of violence young karate-ka might expereince should not part of these kids classes not soley be focused on defending this scenario?

I don't know ANY kids Karate classes that focus on bullying, causes, background, typical habitual acts of violence involved etc ...

Looks like he got what was coming to him and personally I don't think the big kid has anything to answer for.

If anything, I think he showed amazing restraint.

Hopefully the little kid also learnt a valuable lesson - don't attack anyone three times your size...

ok im in no way on the bullies side, but they are kids.

I thought the big kid way over reacted personally (but I understand this happens).

He could have just pushed the other kid away, punched him or walked off - easier said than done of course.

It was a scuffle - which the bigger kid clearly didn't want, not had provoked in any way - and during that he picked the kid up and threw him on the floor. It was the fact that his ankle hits that low wall that broke it and that wasn't done by intent.

The bigger kid also didn't follow it up with any further attack. In fact, to my mind, he did what was necessary to neutralise the threat and no more. The break was unfortunate and I think you have to be pretty hard to blame the bigger kid for any of that.

Hi Gavin,

The big kid saw red and powerdrived the bully head first into concrete.................I understand why it happened but if the big kid was mine I would be having a serious talk about his actions.

I agree the ankle break re the wall certainly was an accident, im more concerned about the potential for serious head/neck injuries when the big kid could have just smotthered, hit the little bullie to resolve it.

I think and am struggling to understand how anyone couldn't agree, that the big kid over reacted.

Given the strength of your feelings I have watched the video again.

...and have to say, it hasn't changed my opinions on it one iota.

If the little kid was mine I'd make sure he knew he deserved what he got and I'd have him straight round to the big kids house to apologise (once his ankle healed).

I'm pretty sure this is one occassion where we are not going to agree (and I'm cool with that)... 

no worries Gavin, we can have different views on this.

By the way I would certainly being having words with the little kid re his part in it, serious ones.

One of the things that does annoy me about these clips is that it totally lacks context.

For all we know the little kid could have been reacting to months of abuse from the big one and our whole view of the incident is skewed. I don't think that is the case in this instance but the point still stands.

It's the same when you see an incident in the street and decide to 'help'. It may look one way but can easilly be another and without knowing the background, you could well be going in on the wrong side.

richo wrote:

It brings up all sorts of issues with regards to school/parent discipline of kids etc, but I guess I'm interested in hearing opinions on firstly what do we teach our kids to do in the face of bullying?

Paul Anderson wrote:

Considering I see a lot of local Karate classes (other than ours) have mostly kids then the most likely confrontation scenario is something like the above.

Which leads to me to ask myself if this is the most common type of violence young karate-ka might expereince should not part of these kids classes not soley be focused on defending this scenario?

I don't know ANY kids Karate classes that focus on bullying, causes, background, typical habitual acts of violence involved etc ...

When I teach the kids class in my club I periodically focus their class upon self protection. Mostly this is based around dealing with bullying style threats they may experience from other children but also against threats from adults. One of the instructors when teaching the kids class is a very experience qualified school teacher thereby ensuring that what we teach does not conflict with schools policy etc, whilst another instructor is police officer which provides an additional viewpoint and input too.

Hi All,

On the general subject of self-defence training for kids, these three articles by Jamie Clubb are a must read. Having personally seen what Jamie’s junior students do – as a guest examiner on a grading panel – I Am of the view that Jamie is a leader in this field, there is a real depth of thinking to the approach taken, and the process he uses gets very positive results. Direct links to the articles can be found below:

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/reality-training-children-part-1-why

http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/reality-training-children-part-2-what

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/reality-training-children-part-3-how

All the best,

Iain

firstly my apologies for such a long post, but here goes.

Gavin Mulholland wrote:

Looks like he got what was coming to him and personally I don't think the big kid has anything to answer for.

If anything, I think he showed amazing restraint.

shoshinkanuk wrote:

I thought the big kid way over reacted personally (but I understand this happens).

He could have just pushed the other kid away, punched him or walked off - easier said than done of course.

Gavin Mulholland wrote:

The bigger kid also didn't follow it up with any further attack. In fact, to my mind, he did what was necessary to neutralise the threat and no more.

shoshinkanuk wrote:

The big kid saw red and powerdrived the bully head first into concrete.................I understand why it happened …..  I’m more concerned about the potential for serious head/neck injuries when the big kid could have just smothered, hit the little bully to resolve it.

Gavin like you I think the bully received a bit of natural justice in this instance but as for the victim exercising amazing restraint I would hazard a guess that he more than likely just snapped having put up with long term victimization.

Shoshinkanuk I understand your claim that you think the lad overreacted but to say that he could simply have pushed the other kid away or punched him and walked away is I think taking a somewhat simplistic and without wishing to offend you a little naïve. The victim’s response, although it may be considered by some to be over the top, probably stopped the victim from receiving any further abuse from the bully as the bullying kid seems extremely shocked and hence could be viewed as a reasonable response. Additionally from my experience and knowledge of the UK law  I would estimate that the victim purely reacted to a threat and did just enough to negate that threat. As Gavin says he did not go any further once he had dropped the other kid. OK with some suitable advice and training he may have used a less potentially fatal response; I’ll give you that but this seems like a simple reactionary response without any thought which a court could take  into account especially in light of the age of the victim.

This incident reminds me of my own experience of being bullied at school. Like the lad in this case I suffered long term abuse from other kids and just put up with it, afraid to stick up for myself or speak up. Things would get to a point where I would then snap and strike back in a similar vein to this kid. I remember on one occasion picking up one of those school chairs, the plastic ones with the metal legs and trying to hit another boy over the head with it. Completely over the top response, but when a person has suffered long term at the hands of others they eventually will snap and retaliate. The problem with this is the response of the victim is that it can end up being  more than would be considered reasonable force.

i agree with Iain too with regard to Jamie's articles i have used these to help formulating what i teach our kids class.