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muratmat
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Heian nidan / Pinan shodan (opening sequence)

Two short clips of me working on the Heian Nidan / Pinan Shodan opening sequence. The second clip crossovers a backward gedan juji uke, taken from Gankaku (at least the Shotokai version that I practice). The clips were taken as a reminder for students, so I do apologize in advance for the bad audio and Italian language.

Kind Regards

Matteo.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Thanks for sharing! I do like the actual methods, the use of the kata to flow past the enemy’s counters, and the “splicing” of kata. One improvement would be to avoid the formal attacks from a distance at the start. There are other, much more realistic ways, in which you can secure grip on the enemy’s arm. I think bunkai needs to reflect violence as it happens; even when we are isolating and drilling a specific skill. It is much closer, much more chaotic and much more frantic than lunge punching from 10 feet away. The strikes, locks and strips you show are OK. My feedback would be to change the “entry” to something more pragmatic.

All the best,

Iain

muratmat
muratmat's picture

Thanks Iain for the suggestion. I know that a straight oi tsuki is not self-defense oriented, but such premise was used to semplify the overall application for students. Starting with a lapel grab, a verbal aggression and a jodan kake tsuki would not allow students to focus on the application (at least in the first stage = pass resistance), so I preferred to avoid a more complicated setup.

Of course once the application has been digested, I usually switch to a more aggressive self-defense oriented situation. Next time I will emphasize better the contextual premise, thanks again Iain.

Iain Abernethy wrote:

Thanks for sharing! I do like the actual methods, the use of the kata to flow past the enemy’s counters, and the “splicing” of kata. One improvement would be to avoid the formal attacks from a distance at the start. There are other, much more realistic ways, in which you can secure grip on the enemy’s arm. I think bunkai needs to reflect violence as it happens; even when we are isolating and drilling a specific skill. It is much closer, much more chaotic and much more frantic than lunge punching from 10 feet away. The strikes, locks and strips you show are OK. My feedback would be to change the “entry” to something more pragmatic.

All the best,

Iain

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

muratmat wrote:
Thanks Iain for the suggestion. I know that a straight oi tsuki is not self-defense oriented, but such premise was used to simplify the overall application for students. Starting with a lapel grab, a verbal aggression and a jodan kake tsuki would not allow students to focus on the application (at least in the first stage = pass resistance), so I preferred to avoid a more complicated setup.

That makes sense to me. There needs to be a structured progression to our training. One thing I do is start with just “an arm”. The arm is not doing anything; it is just put up so the student can practise the technique in the simplest way possible. By making the arm “nothing”, it has the potential to become “everything” … which is where we go next. Normally, the instant the student has the rudiments of the motion down. The partner is then asked to make the arm into a flinch, a cover, a grip, a push, a haymaker, a jab, a cross, etc and the student applies the same application to the “arm in action”. Intensity is then gradually increased.

I think this approach has a few advantages: Firstly, starting with a specific action can limit – in the student’s minds – the use of the kata application to a specific situation. Starting with “an arm”, the student understand that the application can be applied in a myriad of situations. Secondly, it gives the softest of starts when learning something new, and the intensity and aliveness can be increased at a pace commensurate with the student’s skill and understanding. Finally, it introduces no false distances and timings; in a way that using the oizuki can. “An arm” is also even simpler to work with than the oizuki, so it retains the advantages, but introduces none of the disadvantages. Using “an arm” to learn the motion alone is obviously initially devoid of all combative context … and I prefer that to introducing a false context that could instil confusion and will need “undoing”.

Lots of differing ways to approach bunkai, but I hope the explanation above adequately outlines how I do things. I can see how it could be prudent (“politically”) to use an oizuki as a start if working with a group who have a pre-existing culture of seeing that as the way “karate is supposed to work”.

Back to the video, what we are essentially discussing is the merits of the various type of bread that could make up the sandwich … and we need to be careful we don’t ignore the filling as a result :-) I really like the countering counters and the moving from one kata to the next that is shown. More karateka need to explore how the kata can be intertwined like that. I sometimes feel that karateka think combining kata is a little like “crossing the streams” in Ghostbusters i.e. it will lead to the end of the world and must be avoided at all costs! The video shows a solid example of how this can work. Thanks for sharing!

All the best,

Iain

muratmat
muratmat's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:

That makes sense to me. There needs to be a structured progression to our training. One thing I do is start with just “an arm”. The arm is not doing anything; it is just put up so the student can practise the technique in the simplest way possible. By making the arm “nothing”, it has the potential to become “everything” … which is where we go next. Normally, the instant the student has the rudiments of the motion down. The partner is then asked to make the arm into a flinch, a cover, a grip, a push, a haymaker, a jab, a cross, etc and the student applies the same application to the “arm in action”. Intensity is then gradually increased.

I think this approach has a few advantages: Firstly, starting with a specific action can limit – in the student’s minds – the use of the kata application to a specific situation. Starting with “an arm”, the student understand that the application can be applied in a myriad of situations. Secondly, it gives the softest of starts when learning something new, and the intensity and aliveness can be increased at a pace commensurate with the student’s skill and understanding. Finally, it introduces no false distances and timings; in a way that using the oizuki can. “An arm” is also even simpler to work with than the oizuki, so it retains the advantages, but introduces none of the disadvantages. Using “an arm” to learn the motion alone is obviously initially devoid of all combative context … and I prefer that to introducing a false context that could instil confusion and will need “undoing”.

This is a really interesting way of approaching kata and bunkai, perfectly viable also for beginners. I will surely try it, because it seems to have several advantages.

Iain Abernethy wrote:

I can see how it could be prudent (“politically”) to use an oizuki as a start if working with a group who have a pre-existing culture of seeing that as the way “karate is supposed to work”.

You got it, that's the exact situation I have to deal with some of my students that come from many years of "modern" practice.

Iain Abernethy wrote:

More karateka need to explore how the kata can be intertwined like that. I sometimes feel that karateka think combining kata is a little like “crossing the streams” in Ghostbusters i.e. it will lead to the end of the world and must be avoided at all costs!

This is absolutely awesome :D

Marc
Marc's picture

Thanks for posting your videos, Matteo.

There are good ideas in there and the methods match the kata moves closely, which I find, is helpful for beginners and those "that come from many years of 'modern' practice".

By the way: The gedan-juji-uke application could be taken from the beginning of Heian-Yondan which starts similarly to Heian-Nidan and then flows into a gedan-juji-uke. So it would still be a technique from the Heian kata system - just in case jumping into another kata might irritate people.

When I saw the videos I felt the same about the distance of the oi-zuki (he wouldn't even hit you if you did nothing), and then Iain's and your posts went through the arguments for and against and the alternatives. It makes for a good read.

Another thing I would suggest to stay closer to the strategies and the movements of the kata is not to step backwards with the first technique. The kata starts with a turn left and the left foot steps forward in to a kokutsu-dachi - at least in the Shotokan version I know and from what I see the Shotokai version does the same, others just turn into cat-stance. No version I've seen steps backwards. In fact in the 20-some katas I know there very rarely is an occasional backwards step. Most of the time you close the distance to take control over your opponent and minimise their options for evasive movement.

So in the application shown in your video, I would rather step forward into the opponent than away from them. Although I think the important thing here is the angle you take with respect to your opponent, as implied by the kata. And that is part of your application: you position yourself to the outside of your opponent.

Best regards,

Marc