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muratmat
muratmat's picture
A mix application from Heian Nidan and Heian Sandan

Me and one of my students playing with the Heian combat system. I really like it, direct and funny.

Striking points (and projection) from Heian Nidan are 明星 / Myōjō (CV4) and 三日月 / Mikazuki (ST5).

Submissions from Heian Sandan are an hyperextension of the foot (mixed up with a painfull action on Achilles tendon) and 海老固め / ebigatame as Funakoshi Sensei recalls talking about the tegumi of his youth in Okinawa.

Frazatto
Frazatto's picture

May I share my theory on that arm/elbow move?

I follow Sumo, there is a lot to learn and use in there, but in this case particular it's something they use somewhat frequently called Kotenage.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/sumo/techniques/10/

I always found the kata movement being forward kind of strange and that application like they do in Sumo seams VERY similar. Seams to work with any size of opponent too since you are lowering your own hips and bringing the opponent forward with one single move. Once the elbow is locked and they lose their balance, there is very little left to do but follow through.

I would argue it's even pertinent today in self defense as most people even in countries with hot climate wear jeans with a belt.

What do you think?

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi All,

muratmat wrote:
Submissions from Heian Sandan are a hyperextension of the foot (mixed up with a painful action on Achilles tendon) and 海老固め / ebigatame as Funakoshi Sensei recalls talking about the tegumi of his youth in Okinawa.

I do like the term “shrimp hold” (ebi-gatame) as a term for that movement. The recipient definitely assumes a shrimp-like posture. Of course, the western wrestling tradition more commonly refers to it as the “Boston crab”, but I personally like “Shrimp-Hold”.

muratmat wrote:
Me and one of my students playing with the Heian combat system. I really like it, direct and funny.

I think it’s very important to move beyond the specific examples of the kata and se how they can be combined in different ways … Important to play and have fun with our training too :-)

Frazatto wrote:
I follow Sumo, there is a lot to learn and use in there, but in this case particular it's something they use somewhat frequently called Kotenage.

I definitely see Kotenage in Chinto / Gankaku. The hands on the hip, the turns, the preceding position and the following position all suggest that’s what’s happening. It’s shown here:

 

I don’t see it in Pinan / Heian Sandan because of the nature of the 180 turn i.e. hand are put on hips as you turn (Sandan), not before the turn (Chinto). I therefore see that as a headlock and a cross-buttocks throw / Koshi Guruma.

 

The following strike being what to do if the enemy gets around the hip and keeps their feet.

All the best,

Iain

Frazatto
Frazatto's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:
I definitely see Kotenage in Chinto / Gankaku. The hands on the hip, the turns, the preceding position and the following position all suggest that’s what’s happening.

I see now! The way I imagined, you wouldn't be able to deliver the uraken at the end, my hand would be almost behind me and crossed with his arm, no way to take it from A->B.

 

Iain Abernethy wrote:
I don’t see it in Pinan / Heian Sandan because of the nature of the 180 turn i.e. hand are put on hips as you turn (Sandan), not before the turn (Chinto). I therefore see that as a headlock and a cross-buttocks throw / Koshi Guruma.

The following strike being what to do if the enemy gets around the hip and keeps their feet.

Sure, so the stomp is because the adversary is now on the ground and the uraken is in the case he still tries to get up.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Frazatto wrote:
Sure, so the stomp is because the adversary is now on the ground and the uraken is in the case he still tries to get up.

Brilliant! I always saw the stamp as a “Shotokan-ism” because it’s not present in other styles, but that is a very good way to look at it! I think the Shotokan (TSD too) people reading this will really like that. It’s a great way to think of their kata. I like it lots!

All the best,

Iain