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Marcus_1
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Heian/Pinan Yondan ending

Ending moves - moroto-uke into knee strike then turn for shuto.  I've thought about this and is the moroto actually an elbow to a held head, knee then throw?

SimonSutherland
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Hi Marcus, Nobody has answered, so here's what I've gathered from various sources.

Situation: Collar grab (by aggressor's right hand). Hold the grab with the left hand, smash right fist into inside of aggressor's elbow. Smash their neck with the outside of the right forearm [uchi uke]. Grab around the back of their head with both hands, pull down onto knee into stomach/head. Keep right hand around neck (to guide and push down), left hand on aggressor's right arm and pivot left, pulling aggressor around and down in a throw.

Another variation would be to start the pull around with just the right hand behind the head then as the pivot begins, bring the left hand up and strike the aggressor's neck on the way around [shuto] to "insist" on the push down to complete the pivot.

Situation: Double collar grab [no morote-uke, just knee strike]. Aggressor grabs with both hands. Smash both fists into side of jaw, pushing head back at the same time, Grab the shoulders and knee strike to stomach.

Another variation:  Double collar grab. Smash both fists down on top of aggressor's arms and strike up with both fists to the chin. Grab behind the shoulders with both hands and pull down onto rising knee. Grab the back of the head with the left hand and the chin with the right and twist the neck (simulation required here) by pushing the chin up. Pivot around to the left, bringing aggressor with you.

If we look at the sequence that includes the preceding morote as well, then I can see that this one could be used to hold a collar grab with the right hand, strike the neck with the outside left forearm. Then the left hand could grab the back of the head and pull it down, allowing the right hand to strike down on the back of the neck. Morote-uke is usually at mid-level so you need to get the head down to effectively use the elbow on the head.

No mobile phone or video equipment or "combat partner", although I have persuaded by wife to let me borrow her limbs to try out various moves, from time to time. Its usually a lot easier to understand with a video (thanks Iain and everyone else who guides us with their videos - greatly appreciated). So I hope my written explanation is clear.

Have fun.

Marc
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Marcus_1 wrote:

Ending moves - moroto-uke into knee strike then turn for shuto.  I've thought about this and is the moroto actually an elbow to a held head, knee then throw?

As usual there's a lot of possibilities for every move. Simon described some in his post.

From just your brief description of the sequence being "an elbow to a held head, knee then thrown" I can't really visualise what you're thinking of. Could you elaborate on it a little more?

Iain Abernethy
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There’s a few subtly different endings to the kata depending on the style. The way I do it is drop back into short cat stance, as both arms come up with the fists closed. The arms then pull down as the knee strike is delivered. This is close to how Funakoshi shows in in his first book. It’s now more common for open hands to be trust forward before the knee is delivered (as in Shotokan today). Funakoshi, modern Shotokan, Shito-Ryu, etc then finish with knife-hands at angles. However, we finish with a variant of morote-mawashi-uke at the same angles.

I see both options before the knee being ways to deal with a double lapel grab. In modern Shotokan, the open hands can be seen as thumbs in eyes / slap ears which drives the enemy’s head backward; which is turn means the groin comes forward for the knee. The closed hand variation is dropping down on the enemy’s arms and then grabbing the hair (again preventing the potential headbutt), before striking the groin.

In my own dojo, we tend to explore the final angled “blocks” separately. If you were to link them, I would see it as one of the grips on the lapel coming loose after the knee, we then angle away from that free hand – with the angle in the kata representing the angle we take relative to the enemy – and strike the enemy’s neck, as the arms across the chest strikes the enemy’s arm.

The turn back the “front” would not feature for me – although I get it can – because think it is most likely to be a “sensei could not afford a bigger dojo turn” due to the common structure of the Pinan / Heian series at that point.

Was shocked to find I’d not put this one on YouTube! A post-pandemic task :-)

All the best,

Iain

Les Bubka
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Hi Marcus, 

I do different versions of applications, and like to play with it. 

As picture is worth thousad words, please have look on clip below, I do near Kyokushin version of Pinan.

Kind regards

Les

Marc
Marc's picture

Les Bubka wrote:

As picture is worth thousad words, please have look on clip below, I do near Kyokushin version of Pinan.

That knee to the back is so mean! (i.e. I like it a lot, of course.)

Les Bubka
Les Bubka's picture

Thank you Marc

Nimrod Nir
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Iain Abernethy wrote:
Was shocked to find I’d not put this one on YouTube! A post-pandemic task :-)

Another crucial reason to push swiftly for a solution to the pandemic!

Waiting for this YouTube bit, as well as the long-promised podcasts :)

Keep up the good job, Iain. 

Iain Abernethy
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Nimrod Nir wrote:
Waiting for this YouTube bit, as well as the long-promised podcasts :)

I’ve actually recorded a couple more and still no closer to getting any out! I need more hours in the day :-) They will arrive eventually.

All the best,

Iain